Clean slate cars

H2O2 is a great fuel but what was proposed was using very crude fuels in underdeveloped areas. Using carbon based fuels is not nearly as much of the problem if it released cleanly as CO2 and water. The problem is all the other crud that is released. It wouldn't take very many of these steam engines without emissions controls to create significant pollution problems reminiscent of the the beginnings of the industrial age. The skies filled with soot, carbon monoxide and unburned hydrocarbons to the point where it would cause health and sanitation issues. We have the technology today to come up with relatively simple, and rugged systems that can be used in this application that can also be environmentally responsible.

Thinking along these lines, I was thinking. Your typical internal combustion engine only uses about 20% of the heat it produces to generate power. The rest is just lost out the tail pipe or lost through the radiator. If there could be found a way to collect all this heat and use it to run some kind of turbine, steam engine, stirling engine, or whatever, it might be possible to take a significant amount of this 80% and generate more power. Maybe some kind of hybrid setup.

I believe BMW is working on just such a system. Lemme find the link... Here it is: BMW Turbosteamer

I like what they have done, but they STILL have to use a radiator. I dont know how much heat is lost to the cooling system of an engine, but I know it's a lot. It seems to me that there might be a way to conserve even more heat from the engine and convert it to power. One aspect that I was thinking about was that with a system like BMW's the necessity for a muffler could be eliminated thus saving a little weight.
By a quick estimate it sounds like BMW has found a way to increase fuel efficiency by approximately 30%. However this would probably not be a good design for a passenger car that might be stuck in rush hour traffic. It would be a great system for long haul trucks, however. In fact I'm thinking about a triple hybrid set up, a tri-brid if you will, using a diesel-electric engine but supplementing it with this style steam engine. It could also be a great system for trains for the same reasons.

Another thing I was thinking about was why many of these electric cars don't have transmissions? Sure the power produced at lower rpms is comparable to the power produced at higher RPM's but the spinning mass produces a lot of lost energy due to the centripital acceleration. A good little CVT transmission could keep the engine rotating at minimal speed and minimal power output at cruising speed, and the mechanical advantage would give the performance needed with a much smaller engine.

I think the transmissions have trouble dealing with the immense torque available from an electric motor at low speeds. You would have to set an upper limit on the power that can be used at low speeds, or build in some sort of clutch so that the motor speed can be maintained over a lower limit when the vehicle is stationary or barely moving. But at that stage you would probably end up with a heavy, inefficient transmission that defeats the benefit of the excercise anyway.

Although I have heard of "IVT's", or infinately variable transmissions, which, by coupling the CVT with a planetary gearset, allow you to keep the motor speeds high even while the car is stationary. But these are complex and may require a combination of power sources or generators to work properly (this is how Toyota's Synergy Drive works; replace the gas engine with another electric motor and you have an all-electric version).

- Mike

What I was looking at was you could use a small motor, but compensate by having the mechanical advantage of the transmission, so torque wouldn't be an issue.
I think I might not have been clear with my concept. I actually wasn't including an internal combustion engine in this electric car transmission concept. In the last sentence I meant to say "a much smaller motor" meaning an electric motor.
I didn't realize Toyota's Synergy drive had a CVT transmission, so that would be the way to go. I was looking at the Tesla which only has a single fixed gear when I was pondering this idea. I was considering a much less exotic idea for an electric car, where the motor/transmission combination would weigh about the same as the Tesla motor with no transmission. You could have performance if you really needed it without having a high horsepower/short range motor.

If batteries can double their energy density two more times (and they have done it twice in 20 years), that plus super-capacitors will make all-electric cars practical for most use (long trips can use an ICE or battery pack in a trailer for range extension).

How about Ultralight Aircraft? They could takeoff at communal airstrips, and bikes could be used for the other journeys.

Alright some of you might know me from the New Mars forum and I popped over here to see what it was about. I love the idea of starting from scratch and doing things in a way which reflects the hundreds of years of advancement that we have achieved today. Most cities today are distributed the same way that Rome distributed them, using the same technologies (granted with newer materials). Even the road system is virtually unchanged when the technology of today is so much more advanced. Cars are just a stopping point for us on our personal transportation journey. If none of you have seen the Moller SkyCar, I suggest you check it out . 90% of flying time would be handled by the computer while you sleep, read, play games, work remotely, etc. It can be run on clean fuels like ethanol and has a max speed of >300mph. If you design the city from the ground up to be 3d then you would have parking on the roof instead of the basement or even in the middle of the buildings. Apartments would be built with personal landing platforms and you could build large floating refueling stations maybe. This would remove all traffic problems and congestion because airspace is virtually limitless and requires no implicit infrastructure like that of a normal car which requires roads, highways, bridges, stoplights, etc. This would be the best way to travel around in a clean slate city, clean slate sky cars.

Hi Taliesen, Welcome to the CS forum. (I'm jumpboy11j at Newmars, if you couldn't tell).

I think that, especially in cities, 300 mph cars are really a waste of resources. Taking New York City as an example, (That's the largest city with which I have a significant amount of experience) average traffic speed is very low, if you could reliably move at 20 mph that could well be an improvement. I think flying cars may actually be a way to do that, if you can fly then the effective road area goes way up, and traffic moves more quickly. I think the best way to do this would be with airships if possible. The vast majority of personal transport is just for people with minimal amounts of cargo, so the balloon wouldn't need to be too large. One could then use an internal combustion engine using artificial methane, powering a propeller, as one's engine. Heavier cargo could be transported on the ground or in a subway using rentable cars.