The topic is government generated credit in a credit system and how much credit should be created and used for what purposes?

I believe in really big government, with really big budgets, that generate really economies as a result of those really big investments in the infrastructure of that Nations economy that the government has to built up. I am talking about generated credit out of thin air vs tax money from the people. The topic of this thread is government generated credit and how much should we expect the government to generate over a year period of time and to what purpose that credit should be dedicated too.

We will dispense with both the Monetary policies and the tax issues in this discussion.

We will dispense with the Monetary system, because it is bankrupt and needs to be reorganized into a new government credit system. This money that the US Government generated in excess of 24 trillion dollars, the US Government had no business in doing to pay private debt and so those funds need to be repatriated back to the US Government ant the monetary system put through a bankruptcy reorganization process. This Monetary system of fractional reserves system of these private banks will be done away in a US Bankruptcy Court reorganization process and most of that debt liquidated as unpayable and then written off the books.

We will also dispense with the discussion of taxation, because there is insufficient taxes to do what we want to do also and it can't do what we need to have done.

We are assuming that the United States is going back to a government generated credit system again according to the US Constitution and a Hamiltonian type banking system. We will be setting up a Third National Bank that is Government owned and operated and directing the credit to where it going to be used on. We are assuming that we either get another President or get some parental supervision for the President that we do have in office, that will be trying to save the US Economy from complete disintegration of where it going right now. We also want to save Social Security and Medicare also.

If the US Government want to save the US Economy or rebuild it, what do they have to do?

How much government credit does the United States have to generate per year?

How much government credit does the United States have to generate for fifty years period of time?

What should that government credit be used for?

With 48 of the 50 states in the process of going bankrupt. What do you do about that?

We have to save those states from bankruptcy and do an FDR government work projects to restart the US Economy from our current collapsed state and get us going again.

So how much government credit do we have to create for how long?

The United States has to generate between one to two trillion of dollars worth of government generated per year and for every year from here on out. So the United States has to generate between 50 to 100 trillion dollars worth of credit to finance a US Recovery and do a rebuilding the US infrastructure with new technologies to get things going again.

Now that we know how much credit we need or a rough idea of the amount of credit we are going to need. Now we have to decide where we want to use that new generated credit on.

The United States has a history of picking large massive infrastructural projects to advance a modern US Society and a healthy economy when the chooses to do that. The US Government and state government and some times both of them will work to build things like canal, rail roads, subway, water system, etc.

So what do I think that the United States should commit that 50 to 100 trillion dollars worth of credit over this fifty year period.

I believe that we should have or do if we reestablish a US National Banking Credit System:

1. Two government national rail system going throughout the entire United States. Revamping the rail freight system with new electric trains to replace the diesel trains and electrifying a hundred thousand miles of track. Building a passenger service levitated rail system for Amtrak to run on of about forty thousand miles of track. This will probably cost 3 or 4 trillion dollars to do this.

2. We need to either upgrade subways or build new subway in about 60 to 70 American Cities to interface with those other two government national rail system. This will probably cost another 2 trillion dollars to do this.

3. We need clean water too and be able to transport things on our rivers also to promote commerce internally. We need to dredge rivers out and dig canals and dam up rivers with locks to solve water needs and make those rivers navigable to ship and barges. FDR's four river project was nice, but now we need to go to the rest of the major rivers of the United States. We also want to revive the NAWAPA project of bringing water from the Mackenzie River system down the Rockey Mountain trench to water the western half of the United States. We also need to build huge water desalting plants at some of our major cities on the oceans so we can get the water we need like for Los Angles and Virginia Beach in Virginia so that they will have sufficient water supplies also. All these projects will cost 3 or 4 trillion dollars also to do and they need to be done too.

4. If we are going to do these first three things, then we need some power to run those trains, move that water or power to desalt that water which will take a lot of power to do that. I believe that the Electric Power company should be owned by either the US Government or by the State Governments or a combination of the two owning and operating the Electric Power companies. To build four or five hundred nuclear power plants, plus the support infrastructure to put it on line while we are also developing fusion power, will probably cost 3 to 4 trillion dollars to do that.

5. I also believe that we should develop Alaska with an eye of having ten to twenty new cities there and when NAWAPA has been completed for those western states and we have plenty of water out there, build another twenty cities out there also. Which will probably cost another 2 or 3 trillion dollars to do.

6. Now we have to rebuild the productive sector of the private sector of the US Economy. We need 2 to 3 million private family farmers to supply the food for the American people. We want parity prices for those family farmers with a guarantee 100% parity price on there farm products plus 6% over what it cost them to produce it so they have incentives to produce the food we need to eat. We want to break up those grain cartails and make them local businessmen to those farmers that are growing our food and regulate this system to prevent future abuses some time in the future. We also want the US Government to buy about 20% percent of the food that we need to feed the American people per year from those farmers at parity price plus 6% as an insurance policy against having a bad year of droughts or flooding that may wipe out a certain portion of the crops. We want the US Government to guarantee that we have food security even during bad years, so we aren't choosing who can eat and who should go hungry. We may have several hundred billion tired up in reviving the farming sector of America.

7. The other two major private sectors of the productive sectors are mining and manufacturing, which we want to save and revitalize also. We will put them under US Government protection, because we need them, but we intend to re privatizes them some time in the not too distant future in a revitalized US Economy. These mining and factories will be the section that is building the subway and trains, nuclear power plant, farm equipment that those those other section will be using. We may have a few trillion here of government loans or more to revitalize the old factories, build new ones, develop new technologies for the government and maybe NASA so they can complete some new government stated program that there suppose to complete. So over the next 50 years or so we will have several trillions of dollars committed to the mining and manufacturing sector of the United States also.

8. Now we come back to the Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare issues. In a functioning economy, we can afford to fund these programs again and take care of the general welfare of the American people again.

9. Now we need a science driver and it need to be really big too, to have the effect that we want it to have. We want our science driver to affect every area of science we currently have and pushing it forward with new technologies that advance the productivity of the work force and improve the health of the general population. In stead of having an economy that is four times bigger than what we have right now, which is what would happen if we only do what was listed in the first 1-8, we want something more than that. But, before I go into why it will be more than four times bigger, I am going to explain why it four times bigger than it is today. If we stop here, the US population would double in fifty years and would become twice as productive than the current US Population, which would give us our four times the current US size in the US Economy. The reason that a science driver cause the US Economy to go from being four times bigger to being ten time or even twenty times bigger in a future US Economy, is because you have to push the boundaries of science back faster to hit your goals and that where we getting spin off that we are plowed back into the physical economy. If we want the US Economy to be ten to twenty times bigger than it is today in real terms, instead of only being four times in forty to fifty years from now, then we need a really big project that forces us to discover and develop new technologies so we can hit that goal, which means that we don't currently have that we need to develop.

What kind of very big and massive project could we come up with that could force that kind of expansion of the US Economy in that forty to fifty year time frame of generating an economy ten to twenty times the size of the current US Economy is today?

A John F. Kennedy Moon Mission project, but on steroids is just the ticket to do something like that. For every dollar that we spent going to the moon, we received between ten to fourteen dollars in technological spin offs back to the US Economy. We got everything from new computers, metals, new machine technologies, health care improvements, etc. Now that we know how to achieve our stated goal of causing the US Economy to become ten to twenty times bigger than what it is today, now we need a project that can do that for us. The John F. Kennedy Moon Mission project was way too small and way to limited in both time needed to expand the US Economy and limited in scope when it comes to developing new technologies to have the effect that we are looking for.

So we are going to pick something like build a city on Mars of over a 100,000 thousand population and commit to do it in a forty to sixty year time frame. This will have the effect that we are looking for of expanding the US Economy ten times to twenty times bigger than what it is now, because we are plowing those new technologies that we have to develop back into the US Economy as fast as there being developed for NASA so they can hit there target date of having a 100,000 populated city on Mars in a forty to sixty year time frame. We don't either have the technologies nor the infrastructure in place in place to do something this big and it would take forty to sixty years for a government sponsored National Space Goal to hit something big, even for the US Government to do it.

What would the US Government have to do, to hit a goal like that?

The US Government would either have NASA and/or private space enterprises developing major section of the infrastructures to accomplish such a mission. The would have to be funding the development of next generation shuttle for the Earth, Moon, Mars and asteroid mining ships and other deep space space ships, etc. Building Lunar bases, with both mining and a manufacturing skunk works configuration to try and get away from having to bring everything up from the surface of the Earth. A crash program to develop fusion power so we could get the travel time between the Earth and Mars down to a few day instead of six months travel time. We would need a mass transportation system for our city on Mars and the list goes on. We would need two to three hundred ship that could go between the Earth and Mars and do it in a three or four day time frame and most of them would probably be privately owned and operated too. The US Government might even help either or both Bigelow and Space Island out to building there space hotel, not because there running a tourist attraction, but because the need the infrastructure in place to support those shuttle for those deep space space ships going to the moon or Mars.

This could easily cost five to ten trillion dollars or so, but it would return a 100 trillion dollar return to the US Economy in business activities and spin off and would cause most of that increase size in the US Economy that we were looking for all by itself.

10. Now we can't leave the rest of the world out of the picture and so we will have an economic summit with the major countries so they can also participate in these benefits for there people also. And for those less fortunate like in Africa, we need to put together a package for them of maybe one trillion dollars so, they can rebuild there own countries and not get left out either.

Yes, I believe in big government with very big budgets and I believe that is the only way to go if we want to survive as a people.

Don't we have a 'cleanslate economy' section? Besides, we aren't talking about the US on this forum, we're discussing the CS.

Anyway, 100 trillion over 50 years is 2 trillion every year. Too much.

What you don't understand is, that that money or credit is going to get created either in a Monetary System of Banking in a fractional Reserve system of a private banking or we will be creating that credit system by a Federal Government.

Before this last eight to ten years when everything blew out on us. In this private banking or monetary system we have, the Federal Reserve was pumping two to three trillion dollars into these banks per year. Then these banks would do a ten for one on those Federal Reserve notes that was created by the Private Federal Reserve System and make that two to three trillion dollars into twenty to thirty trillion dollars worth of credit as part of this fractional reserve system that we are in. Wall Street bundles this stuff up and sale it as financial toxic accepts to the gullible sucker that invest in Wall Street. After Nixon took us off the fix exchange rate and put us on a floating exchange rate, which let this money creation at the Federal Reserve loose without any regulation or oversight from the US Government, it been running wild and has generated probably two quadrillion dollars or so of worthless paper.

This is why the economy in the United States and in the world at large is collapsing and unemployment is way up and these tent cities are appearing all over the place. This is why we have 48 of the 50 in the United States in trouble financially, because the US Economy is imploding on itself and the tax base is also imploding on itself and now they can't get sufficient tax money to keep the State Governments functioning.

This is why the Federal Reserve System has generate over 27 trillion dollars and stuck the American Tax payer with the bill over the last two or three years that we know about to bail those rich people out and save there accepts. Now there talking about some bail out for these Big Banks and Wall Street again to try and save there worthless paper and stick that bill to the American Tax payer, which we should not accept and we should even recall the 27 trillion back to the US Government that they have already gotten. This bail out money is basically going into a black hole, that needs even more money next time to keep it going. This is a pyramid scheme, which always requires that more money is being put into the system to keep the scam going.

What you don't understand NoMoreLies is, that hundreds of trillions of dollars of these financial accepts are going to evaporate or possibly quadrillion of these financial accepts are going to disappear along with the US Dollar. The US Dollar will became a worthless currency if this process continues as it going. So this Monetary System is dead and it can not and will not be resurrected by anybody and will only cause economic collapse and disintegration into a new dark age.

Fortunately we have the US Constitution to go by to deal with problems like this.

This Monetary System is bankrupt and should be laid to rest or discarded through a Court Ordered Bankruptcy reorganization into a government owned and operated credit system in accordance with the US Constitution.

In a Government Credit System we are also are going to have to generate trillions of dollars of credit, just like in the Monetary system that we are getting rid of had to create trillions of dollars. But, instead of trying to use that generated credit as wealth onto itself, it being used to finance the build up of the physical infrastructure of the Nation generally owned by the government and the creation of goods and services it the productive sector of the economy in the private sector.

In either banking system trillions of dollars are going to get generated over the next 50 years. All we are deciding is who creating it and what that credit is going to be used for. In a Monetary System, this credit will be generated for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many and they will be brought into slavery and resulting in economic collapse in it final phases as it devourers the Physical economy to enrich those few people that will benefit from this system. Or we can go with the Government credit system that uses those financial resources to build up the physical economy of that nation to the benefit of everybody in that nation.

What I am saying is that there are only three option and it will soon be two option, then it will be option open to us.

1. Option number one, continue doing what we are doing to defend the Monetary System.

2. Option number two, stop the bail out and there will be an immediate collapse of the Monetary system. But, the Monetary System is on it final legs and it will collapse anyway even with this bail or anything else they try to do.

3. Bankruptcy of the Monetary system and a reorganization into a government credit system to refinance the rebuilding of the physical economy of the Nation.

These are your choices NoMoreLies and there are no others.

Larry,

Currently, the CS doesn't need to choose these options, because the CS doesn't exist. The US may have those problems, but this forum's about starting from a Cleanslate.

NoMoreLies, I am going to challenge both your assertions that we don't need to talk about other countries economy and pacifically the United States in this Clean Slate Government and the economic problems that the United States is currently in.

In a Clean Slate Government, you take what you know works or don't works or has various levels of success or failures and then you try and come up with something better.

So talking about the United States and other countries governments, we intend use as an educational tool to fashion our Clean Slate Government on. This way we don't make the same mistakes with our Clean Slate Government that we have already made in previous governments and civilizations.

Seeing what the United States has to do to save itself economically, is also relevant to our Clean Slate Government, because economic principles won't change just because we are starting over again or afresh. Once we know what works and what doesn't work, then we will design a system that function on those ideas of how the economy is suppose to function. Our Clean Slate Government on principles that we know work and not on some half baked ideas that don't work or could never work.

So in our Clean Slate Government, we want to take something that works and then improve on it. If we aren't doing this, then our Clean Slate Government is an excercise of vanity and nothing more. When I do a Clean Slate Government, I take what I know works and I build on it or improve it.

My Clean Slate Government would be based on a modified US Constitution as founding document and law of the land of that country. I have several reason for doing it this way and they are:

1. It worked for over two hundred years, so it has a track record of working.

2. It had working money system that drove the physical economy of the United States or a government credit system.

3. The Constitution is based on the General Welfare of the people and the sanctity of life. As a foundation principle of man being in the image of the almighty God, so that give man importance.

Now the US Constitution isn't perfect, but it give us a start point as to what we want to do in our Clean Slate Government or how we would want to arrange it. After we start with the US Constitution as our foundation, the we discuss how we want to change it and by how much or if we want to change it at all.

NoMoreLies, I challenge you and anybody else that wants to participate in a dissecting of the US Constitution like we are using it as the foundation of our Clean Slate Government and as the authority of anybody in that operate and what rules there under when they make laws or perform any duties for the people or executing of there responsibilities.

I would also like the be the referee and devils advocate also and challenges people ideas to why they think it should be changed or altered or any additions to it.

Larry,

We aren't changing the US constitution. What we're doing is creating a new constitution, which is different. The US has no bearing on the CSCS constitution.

The US, as we have seen, is not the best system possible. It may be the best in the world at the moment, but it tends towards beurocracy - a major flaw in any system. To curtail that trend, we need to curtail the governments power.

Actually, the biggest flaw as you put it, was letting the Central Banking system go or let it get hijacked by a private banking system or financial Oligarchy and will then act as an unelected government that they work in. Any nation that doesn't control it own currency or set the value of there own money nor has the power to emit a line of credit on there own authority, does not control there own destiny nor do they really have control over what really happens in there own country.

A private Central Banking system that has received the power to emit a line of credit instead of the country having that authority, can and will start action like it a government onto itself and managed by the few who own that Private Central Bank or have controlling interest in that bank. The people that control that Central Bank will become wealthy beyond your wildest imagination. With there new found wealth, they will buy up businesses, news paper, radio and TV stations and netwerts and control the press so they can brainwash the people and they can secure there hold on that nation. They will eventually come in and subvert the education system also, because they can and blinding the people as to what there doing. It sometime referred to as dumbing down the population of that nation. With there new found wealth, they will start buy politician and donating to politician that are favorable there porsition or those politician are taking what we call payola for there big financial backers. This financial Oligarchy will even kill Presidents of the United States to get there way like John F. Kennedy, William Mackinly, Garfield and Abraham Lincoln. Since they control the press, they can spin it anyway they want to and there no one to counter there lies. So there lies, usually carry the day, because if you hear nothing but lies, at some point those lies start to sound more truthful than the truth does, because that all your hearing.

Because of this problem of having a Monetary System which is run by these big banks which also own shares in the Federal Reserve System which is a Private Bank under a Federal Charter to act at the Central Bank of the United States. The US Government has more or less abdicated it authority to rule or to be sovereign or to function sovereign over the American territory, but has actually ceded it to those financial elite Oligarchy that own many of the member of congress and even the President of the United States. To prove this point, these financial Oligarch-arks got themselves into a financial mess. What did they do? They leaned on there puppet Presidents, first George Bush and then Obama and have since gotten over 24 Trillion dollars of bail out and stuck the American People with the bill. Bailing these speculators out, is against Americas best interest and even violates the US Constitution and intent. If this is so and it is, then the US Government isn't dictating policies, but it being dictated to the US Government what it policies are going to be, by these financial Oligarchs. The Federal Reserve and the people that are behind the front man at the Federal Reserve along with certain members of the congress and our puppet president, which are outside our government are actually the ones pulling the strings of what going on in the American Government. There have been break out from time to time under John F. Kennedy, FDR, Lincoln, Washington, etc.

Nathanial Rothschild in the 1800's made the statement that:

He care not who elected or who serving in government if he controls the monetary policies.

The reason is, he can subvert it or overthrow that government, if he so chooses to do so or if he doesn't like what there doing.

NoMoreLies, no matter what government you put up or Clean Slate Government option that you put out there, if that government doesn't have sole authority to generate credit and no one else has that right, then that government that your setting up doesn't really rule, but will be dictated to by the Rothschild.

The First and Second National Banks had 25 year charters on them, because they were afraid that they would become too powerful. Although that is a genuine fear that the US National Bank could become too powerful, having it charter elapse is also a problem, because now we don't have any protection from those speculators and the Rothschild control over the US Economy, which there doing right now. Under the Authority of the US Constitution, we have a credit system that is managed by either the Treasury Department or the Chartered Central Bank of the United States that is owned and operated by the US Government.

This two hundred year tug of war between the United States and the British Empire is over who controls the money and the right to generate credit and how that credit going to be used. We have two banking system and only two banking system and there is no third kind of banking system to choose from. Our two choices are:

The American System of Economics with a government credit system, that is managed by the US Government. The US Government is suppose to operate for the best interest of the American people.

Then we have the British Empire Monetary system of usury to extract wealth everybody else. This is not on nation ruling over other nation, but a financial elite who have a base in some country, but they have no allegiance to any nation nor are they a nation as such.

NoMoreLies, you are an advocate of a Caretaker type government, which will not work, because you have already abdicated the right to rule that your Clean Slate Government can't function, because you have limited it power too much so that it can't hold the Rothschild and the rest of those speculators in check. If you give that government a sufficient amount of power to generate credit, direct the economy, make the infrastructure that are needed for a functioning economy and make the needed regulation to block those speculators, then you won't have the caretaker type government that your looking for. But, if you insist on this caretaker type government anyway, then you and your new nation or your Clean Slate Government will be dash to pieces by these sharks or speculators stealing everything that not nailed down and they even get that, because they will come armed with crow bar so they can get it too.

Beside, the United States has already tried a caretaker type government already and it didn't work for the reason that I have already mentioned. After the American Revolution and before the signing the new US Federal Constitution, we were operating under a Confederate Constitution for about fifteen years or so.

There it is, the Article of Confederation, which is a very weak government or as your trying to do, a caretaker government. It fault was, that it was way too weak to be used to build the United States up and to defend our borders on a long term bases.

We had a choice of either going to this new strong Central Federal Constitution or run the risk of being re-concord by those European powers. The United States was already in the process of disintegrating when the Federal Constitution was signed into law.

Larry,